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Welcome to a special
edition of R-Talk.
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Today we are talking about
reconciliation in the Reiki world.
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The next hour or so you will hear
everything about why this is happening,
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how it's done, and most importantly, you will meet
the man behind Reiki reconciliation, René Vögtli.
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Welcome back.
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My name is Daniel Straub.
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I am an activist and moderator, and I'm
also a friend of René Vögtli and it's
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a pleasure and honor to be here today with
my friend to interview my friend.
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René is a Reiki teacher,
has been for many years.
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He's the co-founder of various
Reiki organizations, and he's the man
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behind Reiki reconciliation
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and the source and the
brain and the heart of it.
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Welcome, René.
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Welcome.
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You make me blush.
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Hello, Daniel.
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Thank you for the opportunity.
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We can correct that in post-production.
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With Reiki conciliation, René,
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if all your dreams come true, if it's massively
successful, what does it look like?
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What is the outcome?
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Well, within the Reiki community,
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people will agree to disagree, they will
be respectful with each other,
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whether they like each other's opinion
or not, whether they share the same
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tradition or not.
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There's a lot of
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collaboration amongst organizations,
amongst individuals.
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And the essence of it is that people have
created a realm within which they can truly
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live what they are committed to when they
teach Reiki, when they practice Reiki and
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live up also to the ideas behind Reiki.
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So that's the ideal world
within the Reiki community.
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And if we manage to do that, it will have a
ripple effect on the rest of the world.
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Other communities, be they the
Yoga communities, but not necessarily only
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in spiritual circles or in complementary
healing circles, but beyond in
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politics, in economy, it will have a ripple effect.
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So, ultimately together we are going
to win the Peace Nobel Prize.
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Very good.
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Let's talk about reconciliation not just in
the Reiki world, but generally because I
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know you've become somewhat
of an expert for reconciliation.
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My question to you is, I mean, you know,
I guess most people are for it, but where
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do you see the strongest resistance to reconciliation?
In general, not just in the Reiki world.
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What are the biggest resistances?
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Well.
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Reconciliation is always personal, and this
is why I'm happy we're having
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this conversation, and I'm happy that you
give me the opportunity as my friend to be
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speaking with you and being with you
because reconciliation is not something
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abstract out there in the world,
it's always happening between people.
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And when we look at the dynamics
of what happens in a process of forgiving,
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of reconciliation, one of the major obstacles
I find is to truly speak Tacheles, to truly
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accept that something has gone wrong,
that I have been offending you in any way
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or trespassing or hurting you in any way.
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And equally, you admit towards yourself
that you have been hurt, that you have been
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trespassed upon, that a wrong
has been done to you.
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And this recognition is an
initial step, which is very, very
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major in my observation.
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And we don't have a culture
where this has been taught to us.
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We tend to think "OK, let's forget it.
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Let's go to being together
and pretend as if nothing happened."
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And if I may just add to this point,
there is one dynamics which I
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call the heroism of the victim.
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Now I know expressions like 'victim' or
'offender' or 'culprit' are
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very polarized, very harsh sounding.
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But for the benefit of addressing the topic
and also to speak the truth, we need to
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have certain terminology.
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So let me just stick to that.
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And with the heroism of the victim, I mean
the following, and all of us can relate to that.
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When you have done something wrong to me
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- and you know it, and I know it -
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to some degree, I can hold that against you
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for the rest of your life.
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You know, in relationships how people
have the little booklet where
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they make little strokes about how many
times the toothpaste was not closed and
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things like that.
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So I can I can hold that against you for
the rest of the life.
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It is as though I hold a sword
over your head all the time.
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And it would be in my power to open
the hand and let it drop like a bombshell
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onto your head.
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And with the act of heroism of the victim,
I mean the act of taking that sword away
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from the head of the offender
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and actually, symbolically ram it
in the earth, right next to me.
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And take ownership of who I
am, what is right or wrong.
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And this, I find, is such a heroic step
which the victim actually can contribute.
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And I find this is extremely liberating,
but it takes courage and it is contrary to
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maybe many belief systems.
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Yeah.
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So if somebody wronged me in a
really big way, I mean, I don't want
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reconciliation because that means this
wrong that happened to me would be erased.
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And that's not fair. I don't ... want that!
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That has really happened and to be true to myself
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and an advocate of myself ...
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You know what I mean?
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You know where I'm going?
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What can you tell me with that ... with
that kind of attitude or belief system?
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I think that this is quite natural,
and I also think it takes time.
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Reconciliation is a process and it has
different elements, and they're not
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necessarily in a chronological order.
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They come at different times.
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So I think most of us, no matter how grave
the wrong, which has been done to us,
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most of us come to the recognition
sooner or later that I'd rather be
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liberated of that ill feeling.
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I'd rather be free and
not carry this in my luggage.
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So to some extent, it takes a degree of
unfolding of consciousness within the
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individual to get to the point where he or
she says, I don't want to hold onto that
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which you described Daniel.
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I want to release it.
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And that's the other step,
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you know, forgiving isn't forgetting.
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Can you say that again?
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It isn't succumbing to the
other person that he is right or wrong.
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Quite to the contrary!
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If I am truly in my own right as a victim,
that's when I'm empowered to actually ask
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for reparation from you
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if you've done me wrong,
to ask for an apology
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and the risk I take is that
you're going to give it to me.
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At the moment you offer it to me
sincerely and you have regretted
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and we have agreed of some sort of - mostly
symbolic and oftentimes real - reparation,
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the moment we've agreed that and you
offer it to me
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and the moment I take it,
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you're liberated of your luggage,
but then I am also forgiven
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and we are in a reconciled manner.
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That doesn't mean that I haven't
committed the crime and
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that doesn't mean that you need to forget.
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And it certainly doesn't mean
that you need to like me.
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But one thing is for sure,
and there are such great examples.
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If I think of the Peace and Reconciliation
Councils in the African countries, if I
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look at some of the survivors of the Holocaust
who are going to schools today as we talk
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And they're ... free
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They're not carrying that,
which you described anymore.
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And that's mutually beneficial.
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That's mutually empowering.
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Mm-Hmm.
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Yeah, I think I'm still going
through a process of learning to
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differentiate between
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that...
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that forgiving doesn't equal forgetting,
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that the past ... that there is still a place for the past,
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but it doesn't necessarily need to have the charge anymore.
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But I find that very easy in theory and
quite hard then to apply in everyday life.
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I would like to talk to you more about
reconciliation in the Reiki world, but I
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would like to ask for an
introductory clip before we do that.
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My name is René Vögtli.
I'm a Reiki professional.
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Reiki is a healing and spiritual practice,
which was established early in the 20th
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century by Mikao Usui.
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His main successor, Dr. Chujiro Hayashi,
died prior to Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor.
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His successor was the 30 year old
Hawayo Takata, who takes Reiki from
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Japan to America.
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Today, Reiki can be found everywhere.
In families, hospitals, even in prisons.
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When Takata died in 1980 without declaring
her successor, she left behind 22 Reiki masters,
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baffled and without orientation.
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One of them was her granddaughter,
Phyllis Furumoto, whom many recognized as
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her successor. And many did not.
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In the next decades, the
Reiki community went through many
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tumultuous controversies, which divided the
community into several factions.
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There was hardly any openness for communication
among them when I came to Reiki in 1991.
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With time, it became apparent that the
protagonists need to disperse dissonances,
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let go of burdens from the past,
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allowing coexistence, which honours
- even celebrates our diversity.
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In 2014, ProReiki, a German professional
association for all Reiki styles,
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awarded Phyllis Furumoto
an honorary membership.
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Her acceptance speech conveyed a
sense of openness for conciliation.
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The time was right to reconcile.
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Thank you.
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So I think you met Phyllis Furumoto several times.
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But tell us about that one time when you
traveled from Switzerland to Arizona with a
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film crew and had a long conversation
with her that was put on film.
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Take us along with you.
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What was going through your mind?
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What happened
during that conversation?
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Tell us the story of
that encounter with Phyllis Furumoto.
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There was the first encounter encounter
in Germany, which I was very nervous about
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meeting her the first time in person.
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She was a very powerful individual
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and there is a telltale situation at the end
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- and this is quite significant -
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at the end of the filming in Berlin then,
when I brought her to the airport
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Actually, she demanded I
bring her to the airport.
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But being an old school gentlemen, it was
a matter of course that I would carry
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her luggage there.
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And she sat me down ...
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She didn't want the luggage to be carried,
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she wanted to sit me down.
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And look across the table,
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we drank tea together, and she
asked me: "Why are you doing this?"
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And Daniel, I would have to do some
thinking to recount what answer I gave her,
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but it's probably
not very important.
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What is important is that she nodded and she invited me later
0:14:43.683,0:14:49.179
- and that's what you started -
to come to Arizona half an year later.
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And do that second part of the filming.
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In the time between, I spoke to more than
100 protagonists within the Reiki community.
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These are all people who had an opinion
about the diversity and the dissonance
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within the Reiki community.
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I ask them all the same question.
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I asked them.
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I said: "When I'm in Arizona,
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what would be the burning question
you would want me to ask of Phyllis?
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So I had all this in my luggage
when I went to Arizona.
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It was evident ... Two things were evident.
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One was that it was clearly evident that Phyllis
0:15:43.049,0:15:51.149
was the leading light, the Grandmaster,
the Lineage bearer for a particular
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understanding of Western Reiki of one
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version of the Usui Shiki Ryoho tradition?
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So she had to live up to
that role of hers, on the one hand.
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But I represented a lot of people
who did not see her in that role.
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So that was one of the challenges
I was facing when I got there.
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And the other one ...
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And now one has to understand the context
of the whole video, which was
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Reconciliation - along the path of mastery.
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That was the title of the movie
we were about to make.
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So reconciliation was the central theme.
0:16:41.139,0:16:47.470
And a lot of the filming in Berlin and
later then in Arizona dealt with the
0:16:47.553,0:16:48.879
question "What went wrong?"
0:16:50.080,0:16:52.570
We went off in many different directions.
0:16:52.653,0:16:55.210
To give you an example, she spoke quite freely
0:16:56.169,0:17:02.799
about the role of her own mother, which is
often forgotten and Reiki community.
0:17:03.220,0:17:05.259
We have Hawayo Takata,
and then we ...
0:17:05.569,0:17:10.390
We jump to the grand daughter, to Phyllis,
but there is a mother in between who had
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a say in this succession and in this evolution.
0:17:15.400,0:17:20.980
So Phyllis spoke freely about that,
and I'm very proud to have that
0:17:22.720,0:17:26.410
historic raw material of her speaking, for example,
0:17:26.493,0:17:33.039
about her mother in the 66 videos,
which represent all the raw
0:17:33.123,0:17:37.000
material of everything I did
in Berlin and in Arizona.
0:17:37.599,0:17:41.859
So that's the context, the reconciliation
context.
0:17:42.460,0:17:44.470
That of course, included now the question:
0:17:44.553,0:17:49.779
is Phil is going to see and admit
that things went wrong,
0:17:50.140,0:17:56.230
which she feels responsible for?
Either directly or indirectly because
0:17:56.313,0:18:01.539
there was a lot of ill feelings
created or wrong things done
0:18:01.690,0:18:07.450
- and let's not be judgmental about it
but observational - also in her name.
0:18:08.079,0:18:13.390
So that was one of the question
I had unanswered. Is she going to ...
0:18:13.869,0:18:14.710
What did she say?
0:18:14.793,0:18:16.059
What did she say? Tell us.
0:18:18.220,0:18:25.509
Well, yes, she did see, and
she went as far as naming names.
0:18:26.920,0:18:35.470
And there were two major figures,
and they're not at all the only ones
0:18:35.680,0:18:36.720
at the time.
0:18:36.803,0:18:39.220
And I'm speaking about the
90s in particular.
0:18:39.430,0:18:41.559
There were many people,
but there were two figures.
0:18:42.430,0:18:46.630
One is an American gentleman by the name of
William Rand, and the other one is a
0:18:46.713,0:18:50.470
German gentleman by the name of Frank Arjava Petter
0:18:51.789,0:18:57.670
And they, with the work they did, they were
at loggerheads or vice versa, to...
0:18:59.950,0:19:01.839
where Phyllis was.
0:19:01.923,0:19:10.750
And she did say that she and her
organization behaved in ways she - and that's
0:19:10.833,0:19:14.829
the other point, and that's actually the
major point - she came to regret.
0:19:15.160,0:19:19.089
And she came to understand she doesn't want to carry it
0:19:19.173,0:19:21.970
any longer with her, and she wants not only to
0:19:22.053,0:19:24.700
liberate herself, but also the other person.
0:19:25.779,0:19:35.500
And the milestone of all the work I have done so
far is actually to experience Phyllis Furumoto
0:19:35.980,0:19:42.759
apologizing on film for all the transgressions
she made and which were made in her name.
0:19:43.329,0:19:50.589
That was like the starting shot for the
reconciliation work all together,
0:19:51.700,0:19:54.700
(excuse me) to take on a lively form.
0:19:56.559,0:19:57.185
Hmm.
0:19:58.329,0:20:01.660
Were there reactions to
her saying that on film?
0:20:03.069,0:20:07.990
Well, that's an interesting question,
Daniel, because if you're asking me
0:20:08.073,0:20:13.880
and you're asking me, here we
have a woman who has apologized.
0:20:14.140,0:20:18.220
Now, earlier in our conversation, we spoke
about the different elements in
0:20:18.303,0:20:19.809
the reconciliation process.
0:20:20.319,0:20:25.990
So if I do something wrong to you
and I offer my apology and I offer to
0:20:26.073,0:20:29.740
make amends, reparation some sorts
or the other.
0:20:31.420,0:20:33.160
Are you going to accept my apology?
0:20:34.299,0:20:43.569
And if you're asking me, I think the Reiki
community at large still owes a proper
0:20:43.690,0:20:45.339
acceptance of that apology.
0:20:46.509,0:20:52.299
In other words, some quarters still today
are holding on to that,
0:20:52.383,0:20:53.710
which you described earlier.
0:20:54.829,0:20:59.109
They haven't gotten to the point where they
said, I disagreed with what went wrong.
0:21:00.190,0:21:00.815
But ...
0:21:02.420,0:21:09.579
but I still want to hold on to the
victim's right ... to be what? To be right?
0:21:12.900,0:21:13.525
Mm-Hmm.
0:21:13.609,0:21:14.234
Mm-Hmm.
0:21:15.000,0:21:16.170
Yeah, so this
0:21:16.253,0:21:21.450
is a process we are in, we the
Reiki community, and of course, it's
0:21:21.533,0:21:27.299
an illusion if ... I'm not thinking that I can
make a movie of any one of the people
0:21:27.383,0:21:28.500
who are still around.
0:21:28.829,0:21:33.569
And of course, I'm very deeply committed to
using the opportunity of the people still
0:21:33.653,0:21:37.410
alive today to go and speak
to them and contribute so that
0:21:37.710,0:21:42.869
an interaction happens, but it would be
naive to expect them that they're sitting
0:21:42.953,0:21:48.819
in front of a camera and say, Well,
I know, forgive, I forgive Phyllis for and
0:21:48.903,0:21:51.359
all the people who in
her name have done wrong.
0:21:51.443,0:21:55.099
That's ... somewhat naive.
0:21:55.183,0:22:01.859
And yet, having said this, this is
precisely what needs to happen, if not on
0:22:01.943,0:22:10.170
film and with words, I so theatrically
now said, but it needs to be done in the
0:22:10.253,0:22:13.730
heart of hearts. I give you an example.
0:22:15.759,0:22:23.440
I spoke two days ago to an elderly lady who
learnt Reiki in the 80s from Phyllis Furumoto
0:22:23.859,0:22:28.690
who was skeptical about a lot
of the teachings of Phyllis Furumoto,
0:22:29.920,0:22:37.690
who - and I admire her for that -
who later in life decided also to learn
0:22:37.930,0:22:44.950
other Reiki styles because she felt that
she can be loyal to both.
0:22:46.390,0:22:51.460
It's like, you know, the definition of
maturity being able to hold two
0:22:51.543,0:22:55.180
contradictory minds at the
same time in your mind.
0:22:56.200,0:23:00.339
And she, this lady is capable of making that bridge.
0:23:00.700,0:23:04.390
And we reflected how it
was back in the 90s.
0:23:04.473,0:23:11.920
And she said, well, to me at that time,
William Rand, whom I mentioned earlier,
0:23:12.910,0:23:16.599
was unacceptable, how he ... His
practice of Reiki.
0:23:16.960,0:23:19.089
And then she continued, this
is a few days ago.
0:23:19.390,0:23:23.470
Then she continued to say, And
you know what happened recently?
0:23:24.039,0:23:29.440
I received a phone call from a lady who
wants to train with me to become a Reiki
0:23:29.523,0:23:32.500
teacher recommended by William Rand.
0:23:35.170,0:23:38.319
So that's what's needed! That's ...
0:23:38.403,0:23:40.390
You asked earlier
about the visionary thing.
0:23:40.539,0:23:46.240
That's the kind of thing which we can
contribute in the here and now and
0:23:46.323,0:23:51.849
which needs to happen
to create that wonderful, wonderful,
0:23:52.900,0:23:55.690
fragmented, beautiful ...
0:23:55.960,0:24:01.119
It's like a diamond with so many facets,
our Reiki community and each facet has its
0:24:01.203,0:24:02.799
own right and its own color.
0:24:03.190,0:24:07.480
And yet we are united as one and the
same diamond.
0:24:08.170,0:24:17.619
The interesting thing in my RTalks, in my conversations,
which is one of the contributions I'm making to try ...
0:24:18.880,0:24:20.410
to get people to talk to each other.
0:24:21.730,0:24:26.500
To whoever I speak,
whether it is to William Rand, whom I
0:24:26.583,0:24:30.309
mentioned, or to Arjava Petter, whom I also mentioned.
0:24:30.393,0:24:32.829
I've spoken to both. Or anyone else.
0:24:32.913,0:24:36.069
Some of the Japanese masters, thy
have one thing in common,
0:24:36.250,0:24:36.880
all of them,
0:24:37.990,0:24:39.369
and what they say is:
0:24:40.869,0:24:41.529
the energy,
0:24:42.900,0:24:45.089
the reiki, we all share the same.
0:24:46.569,0:24:47.490
Mm hmm.
0:24:48.940,0:24:57.849
Yeah, well, I think I observed the
development within you, René, when I talked
0:24:57.933,0:25:04.450
to you about Reiki 20 years ago, I think
you were more separatist and you
0:25:04.533,0:25:10.420
justified that with upholding
standard for quality.
0:25:11.950,0:25:16.589
I'm Reiki Network and we
have this quality.
0:25:16.673,0:25:17.299
I mean.
0:25:19.900,0:25:23.589
Are you not worried anymore
that under the label Reiki ...
0:25:25.960,0:25:30.130
people are doing things that
are not of good quality?
0:25:32.200,0:25:37.809
If I pick up on your language,
if I would worry about it, I'd be in
0:25:37.893,0:25:43.900
contradiction with my own teaching because
one of the important teachings which we
0:25:43.983,0:25:48.339
have is: Just for today,
I do everything not to carry worry with me,
0:25:49.569,0:25:51.940
but I'm making a little bit light of your question.
0:25:52.960,0:25:58.660
And of course ... first of all, how did I get
involved in this reconciliation?
0:25:58.839,0:25:59.680
Partly
0:25:59.763,0:26:08.079
- besides my biographical involvement in the
reconciliation process as a personal healing process -
0:26:10.029,0:26:15.640
partly because, of course, like that lady I
spoke about in the 90s, to me,
0:26:15.723,0:26:21.609
certain people out there who did not comply
with what I believed to be the best possible
0:26:21.693,0:26:26.170
standards I frowned upon,
I distance myself from.
0:26:27.220,0:26:30.400
And that was the zeitgeist at the time.
0:26:30.700,0:26:34.779
I don't think it
is right from today's perspective.
0:26:36.220,0:26:42.069
And the ill which was done, the dis-justice
which was done needs to be repaired.
0:26:42.609,0:26:43.599
Reconciliation.
0:26:45.549,0:26:52.390
So the change I went through in the last
20 years, I'm still proud of the teaching standards
0:26:52.480,0:26:55.990
my wife and I and my colleagues
in the Reiki Network and many other
0:26:56.073,0:26:57.309
people uphold.
0:26:58.059,0:26:59.950
I don't have a problem with that at all.
0:27:00.970,0:27:05.200
And I can see that there are terrible
things in the Reiki community.
0:27:05.349,0:27:08.240
Charlatans, quickies, whatever.
0:27:08.869,0:27:11.640
There is a joke I can make about that.
0:27:12.670,0:27:19.420
I want to be grateful to them because that
way I can differentiate myself.
0:27:21.430,0:27:28.769
So and ... That's partly the answer to
your question. I'm starting to or I have
0:27:28.853,0:27:36.910
matured into starting to appreciate and to
embrace even that which I, from my
0:27:36.993,0:27:40.390
subjective point of view, I disagree with.
0:27:40.960,0:27:46.059
But if I speak to these people, I come to
see the beauty of their personality.
0:27:47.079,0:27:52.869
Nowadays, Mischa and I, my wife and
I are getting phone calls from Romania,
0:27:52.953,0:27:53.740
from Russia,
0:27:55.539,0:28:00.039
from other places where people are
asking us, Tell me, how do you give a
0:28:00.123,0:28:01.059
children's seminar?
0:28:01.630,0:28:03.910
How do you teach a Reiki teacher?
0:28:04.900,0:28:08.650
And these are people I used to frown upon.
0:28:09.640,0:28:16.180
So the maturity process, I think the
community at large, because this is not
0:28:16.263,0:28:22.569
necessarily only a personal achievement,
I think it is one we created collectively,
0:28:23.710,0:28:29.319
at large has matured into coming to
understand that each of these puzzles
0:28:31.420,0:28:38.450
has a right to exist and deserves ...
0:28:38.750,0:28:39.710
empathetic ...
0:28:42.769,0:28:43.395
loving ...
0:28:45.099,0:28:46.720
approach to deal with.
0:28:47.170,0:28:49.660
And again, I don't need to agree with them.
0:28:52.009,0:28:52.635
Mm hmm.
0:28:53.029,0:28:53.655
Yeah.
0:28:54.650,0:29:01.130
So if people in Portugal are listening and
let's say they're touched by what you're
0:29:01.213,0:29:05.119
talking about and they
want to get involved or
0:29:06.539,0:29:10.529
contribute to reconciliation,
what can they do?
0:29:14.759,0:29:15.385
Thank you.
0:29:15.480,0:29:20.039
It's a very good question because this is,
of course, how this very special edition of
0:29:20.123,0:29:21.480
RTalk came about.
0:29:22.690,0:29:27.539
We're basically doing this on
the invitation of the Portuguese community.
0:29:28.200,0:29:31.380
They're celebrating the 100 year existence.
0:29:31.463,0:29:34.170
Like many other organizations in
the world, by the way.
0:29:35.039,0:29:36.990
Reiki turns 100 years old.
0:29:37.073,0:29:41.400
Such a young baby in this year, 2022.
0:29:42.480,0:29:47.069
Such a young baby
with such an unbelievable evolution.
0:29:47.153,0:29:49.109
In that context, it's a very young baby.
0:29:50.519,0:29:53.759
And they decided to make a documentary,
0:29:53.843,0:30:00.779
and they invited me to speak about what
happened in the past, the dissonance which
0:30:01.529,0:30:03.470
needs reconciliation and so on.
0:30:03.553,0:30:05.970
And this is how this came about.
0:30:06.599,0:30:11.400
So the very fact that they're
listening to this conversation,
0:30:11.483,0:30:13.980
that they've made it possible, actually, that they've
0:30:14.063,0:30:17.279
invited you and me to
hold this conversation,
0:30:17.640,0:30:23.369
it shows their willingness to listen
to other thoughts, to collaborate with
0:30:23.453,0:30:29.160
other people, to live up
to a (re)conciled state of mind.
0:30:29.759,0:30:35.009
So, they're ... and I'm happy to ...
0:30:35.609,0:30:38.849
Reconciliation is not
an intellectual process.
0:30:39.150,0:30:45.390
Yes, we can speak about different elements
or steps, and we can rename them and so on
0:30:45.960,0:30:51.200
and put psychological or philosophical theories behind it.
0:30:51.283,0:30:55.740
But at the end of the day,
it's intimately personal.
0:30:56.759,0:31:00.640
It happens on the heart level,
not so much on the mind level.
0:31:00.723,0:31:06.119
At best the mind is just the entry portal
to get to where it really counts.
0:31:06.660,0:31:15.720
And this is ... To understand this and
to create an opportunity to express this,
0:31:15.869,0:31:21.480
the heart basis - and one short answer to
your question, by the way, is:
0:31:21.563,0:31:24.839
everyone watching this video is invited
to do their self treat.
0:31:26.720,0:31:32.779
That's the most crucial help or the most powerful, potent
0:31:33.980,0:31:37.849
lubricant in the process of reconciliation.
0:31:38.450,0:31:44.089
So they decided to make a documentary about
the past and where we are going.
0:31:44.569,0:31:49.940
And within this context of a documentary,
our conversation about reconciliation takes
0:31:50.023,0:31:55.609
place and hopefully you and I
can transport the heart level, because ...
0:31:57.150,0:32:02.849
The title of documentary, at least to me,
implies a certain historic truth.
0:32:02.933,0:32:10.740
So I'm very glad that they're actually also
inviting historians, academics who have
0:32:10.859,0:32:14.069
researched over many years and
at great expense.
0:32:14.660,0:32:15.285
And ...
0:32:18.690,0:32:27.750
here, is a book by Dr Jojan Jonker
who is also going to give a presentation
0:32:27.833,0:32:29.579
to our colleagues in Portugal.
0:32:30.390,0:32:35.160
Here is a book I recently
finished about the women in Reiki
0:32:35.243,0:32:37.890
often not getting ...
0:32:37.973,0:32:39.509
Finished reading or finished writing?
0:32:39.990,0:32:40.940
Finished reading.
0:32:42.599,0:32:47.319
I wish I had written it
0:32:47.403,0:32:50.369
So to give room to that kind of development
0:32:50.453,0:32:55.420
is an important, important
answer to your question, Daniel.
0:32:55.829,0:32:56.455
Mm-Hmm.
0:32:56.539,0:32:57.164
Mm-Hmm.
0:32:59.390,0:33:06.289
You do RTalks,
you interview people around reconciliation.
0:33:06.619,0:33:11.420
So this must be very hard for you to have
these reversed roles where you have to
0:33:11.503,0:33:13.609
answer questions and not get to ask them.
0:33:14.089,0:33:17.720
And you have a lot of experience.
Given your experience,
0:33:18.049,0:33:22.359
what is the question I haven't asked you yet
that I should have asked you?
0:33:23.900,0:33:24.525
OK.
0:33:25.099,0:33:25.725
Well,
0:33:29.329,0:33:31.250
you know, this is a special edition.
0:33:31.333,0:33:39.769
We're talking about reconciliation and
in fact, 'R'Talk the 'R' stands for Reiki.
0:33:40.009,0:33:42.049
And it stands for reconciliation.
0:33:42.920,0:33:52.549
Normally, these are the two topics I don't
talk about in RTalks because if I speak
0:33:52.633,0:33:57.589
to one expert of one
style of Reiki about his style
0:33:58.369,0:34:05.240
listeners who are convinced of another
style may easily get triggered.
0:34:05.660,0:34:08.210
And that's exactly what
I'm not trying to do.
0:34:08.293,0:34:12.889
To the contrary, I'm trying to have them talk to
each other and not being in a reactive mode.
0:34:13.250,0:34:19.159
So I don't talk about Reiki, and I also
don't talk about reconciliation much,
0:34:19.243,0:34:22.070
because, as we could feel earlier on,
0:34:23.880,0:34:28.860
to speak Tacheles, to be courageous and
take that sword away from the victim.
0:34:29.219,0:34:36.929
These can be very, very heavy topics,
and I'm using the RTalks to meet and
0:34:37.013,0:34:42.269
greet people of different walks of life,
of Reiki-life: old-young,
0:34:43.380,0:34:47.610
black-white, men-women,
0:34:47.789,0:34:50.429
professor-street cleaner.
0:34:50.760,0:34:56.550
I want to talk to everyone because every
one of them is an interesting personality.
0:34:56.880,0:35:01.500
And I would like to think
that in those conversations, we are ...
0:35:02.489,0:35:05.250
And that's the other thing, if I may correct you,
Daniel,
0:35:05.760,0:35:07.320
I don't interview these people.
0:35:07.403,0:35:14.579
I go into a conversation with them, and the
two of us together are basically exploring
0:35:14.789,0:35:21.869
one element of their personality, a certain
topic that can be anything basically,
0:35:22.079,0:35:27.030
but it will give the viewer an insight who this
other person on the other side of the
0:35:27.113,0:35:31.199
planet with a very different Reiki tradition is.
0:35:31.283,0:35:34.590
And come to see - hopefully, if it works well -
0:35:34.673,0:35:37.320
come to see ...
0:35:37.403,0:35:38.340
they're no different than me.
0:35:40.719,0:35:44.050
We are ... Yes, we are not ...
0:35:44.133,0:35:47.619
on the surface of things,
we are not the same at all.
0:35:48.610,0:35:52.250
But take away that surface
and listen to the person ...
0:35:52.989,0:35:55.510
May I tell you one of
the highlights of the RTalks?
0:35:55.900,0:35:56.525
Yes.
0:35:58.150,0:35:59.889
So we have ...
0:36:00.159,0:36:04.000
Reconciliation is only
necessary if there was prior to that,
0:36:04.083,0:36:06.639
a dissonance, if people have been fighting.
0:36:07.750,0:36:09.760
If there was polarities,
if there was war.
0:36:10.750,0:36:11.375
So.
0:36:15.409,0:36:19.119
Basically, there are three
arenas of dissonance.
0:36:20.230,0:36:23.050
Let me try and show you on the whiteboard.
0:36:27.340,0:36:31.030
I'm making it, of course, very
simple for myself and for us.
0:36:31.960,0:36:34.769
We have originally Mikao Usui.
0:36:35.539,0:36:42.550
We have Chujiro Hayashi
and we have Hawayo Takata.
0:36:42.909,0:36:51.489
Then in the 1980s, Hawayo Takata
introduced twenty-two known
0:36:53.170,0:36:55.389
Reiki teachers to the world.
0:36:55.719,0:37:00.849
By the time these were the
last years of her life in 1980.
0:37:02.780,0:37:04.880
I hope you can see that half way.
0:37:08.530,0:37:10.869
Let me use a better color.
0:37:16.110,0:37:19.380
So there were 22, and
they, of course, ended up
0:37:22.409,0:37:30.900
teaching their own Reiki teachers, and this
is how it started to diversify into the new
0:37:30.983,0:37:33.840
era after Hawayo Takata's death.
0:37:34.320,0:37:37.800
Now you had basically two
0:37:39.360,0:37:40.829
developments, you could say.
0:37:40.913,0:37:43.710
There is the Reiki Alliance
on the one side
0:37:44.070,0:37:47.159
and there is the Reiki Radiance Technique
0:37:47.519,0:37:49.739
on the other side, Barbara Weber Ray.
0:37:51.119,0:37:53.519
And Phyllis Furumoto on this side.
0:37:54.119,0:37:58.260
And in the enthusiasm of the time,
0:37:58.440,0:38:04.429
both these fractions had an idea
that they did a very specifically and a
0:38:04.513,0:38:09.599
very right thing, differentiating themselves from each other.
0:38:09.929,0:38:14.730
And that's where a lot of the
dissonances eventually happened.
0:38:15.960,0:38:22.380
But let's just remember, this is also part
of the zeitgeist, and this is an explosive
0:38:22.463,0:38:27.840
unfolding of Reiki from 1980 onwards.
0:38:28.710,0:38:37.980
So there was a tension field created
between the area between those two poles,
0:38:38.309,0:38:40.230
and a lot of people in between said:
0:38:40.313,0:38:43.050
"No way, this isn't in the spirit of Reiki",
0:38:43.133,0:38:45.179
as Daniel asked in one of the questions,
0:38:46.469,0:38:50.010
"we don't want to get polarized."
0:38:50.250,0:38:56.460
And to be fair, as time went
by the participants of these two traditions
0:38:56.543,0:38:59.050
or schools, they became more moderate,
0:38:59.133,0:39:00.809
they became more flexible.
0:39:01.110,0:39:03.269
Otherwise, we wouldn't be
sitting here talking.
0:39:03.929,0:39:04.555
And
0:39:06.000,0:39:08.849
in this tension field, however,
there were a few people,
0:39:09.210,0:39:15.360
and in particular, I would like
to mention Arjava Petter,
0:39:15.690,0:39:23.250
who released a very important book in
1997, which gave clarity,
0:39:23.333,0:39:28.469
historic clarity because he discovered the
memorial tombstone and he published it
0:39:28.553,0:39:37.019
in 1997, which gave a lot of clarity about
many things which until then were hearsay,
0:39:37.103,0:39:39.840
legend, fairytales to some extent.
0:39:40.800,0:39:45.960
And, of course, those who believed in the
recountings and in the value of
0:39:46.043,0:39:53.429
oral tradition, they were somewhat provoked.
Me being amongst them in the 90s.
0:39:54.900,0:40:01.980
So Arjava here, he basically and
many others, he wasn't the only one,
0:40:02.400,0:40:08.579
he basically decided - he lived back in Japan
also, he was married to a Japanese lady at
0:40:08.663,0:40:16.650
the time - and he decided, Well, there must
be a way to find out how it was in the old
0:40:16.733,0:40:18.599
days of Usui Sensei.
0:40:18.960,0:40:24.940
And lo and behold, he of course,
found ... let me use a different color. Red.
0:40:26.070,0:40:33.510
He found Mrs. Yamaguchi, who still
knew Hayashi and who was trained by
0:40:35.460,0:40:41.340
Hayashi Sensei, and Arjava
started to work with her.
0:40:42.840,0:40:48.090
This is basically the birth hour
of what we call today Japanese Reiki.
0:40:48.449,0:40:56.219
Of course, that's naive because next to
Hayashi, there were other ...
0:40:56.303,0:41:01.199
Usui didn't only have one master he trained.
0:41:01.559,0:41:03.179
He had a number of masters.
0:41:05.010,0:41:08.719
And ... there we go.
0:41:10.199,0:41:11.280
So I could make
0:41:13.199,0:41:20.610
a web here from Usui, more than 20 and
in deed, Hayashi had a number of masters and
0:41:20.693,0:41:23.130
also women whom he trained as teachers.
0:41:23.760,0:41:29.280
One of them was Taktata Sensei, and she in
many ways was the most important one
0:41:29.363,0:41:36.510
because she single handedly brought Reiki
to the West, which ensured Reiki's survival
0:41:36.593,0:41:45.449
to some extent because the remnants of
those here and in particular the Gakkai
0:41:45.533,0:41:52.139
in Japan, who to this day is the
organization Usui Sensei formed a
0:41:52.223,0:41:57.900
hundred years ago, is still around and alive.
0:41:58.710,0:42:06.090
But the revival, or the renaissance
of Reiki, was the product of Arjava coming
0:42:06.173,0:42:12.389
back from the western world, starting to
inquire - Arjava and some others - starting
0:42:12.473,0:42:17.639
to inquire about Reiki here and
that's when a lot of the Japanese
0:42:18.719,0:42:22.860
Reiki practitioners also became aware of the fact
0:42:22.943,0:42:28.829
that Reiki was very popular in the
Western world. So, this basically is very
0:42:28.913,0:42:37.110
primitively how you could say that there is
a Japanese school of Reiki. And there is a
0:42:37.193,0:42:39.090
Western school of Reiki.
0:42:39.960,0:42:47.909
So the three areas of dissonance basically
are today within the Western community.
0:42:47.993,0:42:56.250
There is still dissonance and clarity to
be reached, but also amongst the Japanese
0:42:56.333,0:43:05.010
masters or traditions related and very
simplistically titled as Japanese Reiki.
0:43:05.309,0:43:12.420
This is an era where ... an area - and an arena -
where reconciliation by all means
0:43:13.050,0:43:14.219
can still prosper.
0:43:14.940,0:43:20.849
But also the there is a dissonance between
those two, the Western and
0:43:22.469,0:43:24.960
the Eastern, or the Japanese Reiki styles.
0:43:26.280,0:43:31.349
That is why I'm saying there are
three arenas of dissonance.
0:43:32.519,0:43:37.989
So I had a representative from a
Western style, an elderly gentleman,
0:43:38.579,0:43:39.449
Fokke Brink.
0:43:40.559,0:43:46.500
Many of us see him as a dinosaur of Reiki,
Very strong, very masculine.
0:43:47.429,0:43:53.579
And on the other side, there was a lady,
a Japanese lady representing Jikiden Reiki,
0:43:53.663,0:43:59.250
the Japanese Reiki tradition.
And she was more like a butterfly in
0:43:59.333,0:44:02.610
comparison to this to this 'dinosaur'.
0:44:03.239,0:44:05.429
And the topic was 'passion'.
0:44:06.960,0:44:10.199
Now they share a passion. Their passion was calligraphy.
0:44:10.530,0:44:14.489
So I let them talk for 20 minutes about calligraphy.
0:44:14.730,0:44:17.849
And at one point I said,
Listen, guys, I'm getting bored
0:44:19.110,0:44:21.840
talking about calligraphy.
0:44:22.650,0:44:25.469
I'd like to get back to passion.
0:44:26.250,0:44:29.820
And as I said, I'm getting bored
with calligraphy,
0:44:29.903,0:44:33.090
those two people laughed at me.
0:44:33.960,0:44:39.989
Both of them laughed at me with
full heart, full throat and in unison.
0:44:41.610,0:44:46.349
They're representing different worlds,
but they were one in that moment in their
0:44:46.920,0:44:50.170
laughing at me and my sentence,
0:44:50.253,0:44:53.130
Come on, guys, let's talk
about passion and not calligraphy.
0:44:54.599,0:45:00.869
Was it easy to get these two people in a
joint conversation, or were they skeptical
0:45:01.650,0:45:02.429
for joining?
0:45:06.349,0:45:12.530
They were not skeptical at all, speaking to
a representative of another school,
0:45:12.613,0:45:13.789
neither of them.
0:45:13.873,0:45:16.460
They were very open
about that, which is
0:45:17.449,0:45:22.610
- your question suggested - and which may
be a surprise to many people.
0:45:23.960,0:45:27.619
But that was aided by the
fact that we spoke about calligraphy,
0:45:27.703,0:45:29.000
their shared passion.
0:45:30.139,0:45:38.329
But it was actually an experience and a
half in how it came about because I spoke
0:45:38.413,0:45:41.929
to the Japanese lady
and we tried to explore.
0:45:42.050,0:45:46.480
I was interested talking to her what might
be a topic that she is interested in,
0:45:46.563,0:45:50.539
and she told me that
she loves doing calligraphy and instantly.
0:45:50.623,0:45:56.570
I remembered Fokke and I called Fokke
an hour later or sent him an email,
0:45:56.869,0:46:00.920
and the filming happened 24 hours later.
0:46:01.190,0:46:03.280
So neither of them knew each other.
0:46:03.363,0:46:08.030
Neither of them were prepared or could
prepare themselves for the other.
0:46:08.429,0:46:10.130
And both of them were a little bit ...
0:46:11.690,0:46:12.619
apprehensive.
0:46:14.269,0:46:17.030
You know, Fokke said to me,
0:46:17.480,0:46:20.090
But she's Japanese. You know I don't speak Japanese.
0:46:21.530,0:46:25.670
And she said, Oh, he does for how long?
0:46:26.300,0:46:28.760
He does calligraphy 40 years?
0:46:28.969,0:46:30.260
He must be a master.
0:46:30.480,0:46:34.849
So in their own right, they were very
nervous to get to meet each other.
0:46:35.239,0:46:40.400
And I think the RTalks are such a
wonderful opportunity to create a dance
0:46:40.483,0:46:42.230
of this kind of conversation.
0:46:42.679,0:46:45.380
And I would like to think that's what happened there.
0:46:45.800,0:46:46.425
Mm hmm.
0:46:48.230,0:46:53.059
Coming back to the topic of reconciliation
in general, not just in the Reiki world.
0:46:54.230,0:47:02.480
What is the most important or most touching
reconciliation story in your own life?
0:47:07.210,0:47:15.179
That would be the reconciliation with
my mother, which she spearheaded,
0:47:15.263,0:47:20.800
which she initiated with so
much consciousness, but without the
0:47:20.883,0:47:23.019
labels of reconciliation.
0:47:23.500,0:47:27.219
And quite frankly, I didn't have
those elements, those labels in
0:47:27.303,0:47:28.570
my mind either.
0:47:31.269,0:47:39.940
Life was very tough on her having to give
birth ... when she was 16 year old.
0:47:40.659,0:47:41.469
I was born.
0:47:41.860,0:47:44.739
A very difficult time.
0:47:44.823,0:47:47.590
She was in a foreign country.
0:47:48.130,0:47:49.929
It was a very tough time.
0:47:50.320,0:47:50.945
And
0:47:52.510,0:47:57.730
her mother originally asked her to abort
the child, to abort me.
0:47:58.869,0:48:03.519
And as a 16 year old, she resisted her own
mother in a foreign country.
0:48:04.989,0:48:05.949
Pretty heroic,
0:48:07.599,0:48:08.860
and they made a compromise.
0:48:08.943,0:48:17.679
I grew up with her mother, and to
some extent, my biological mother was never
0:48:17.763,0:48:26.440
there for me as a child, as I grew up, as a
mother. And actually officially for the
0:48:26.523,0:48:28.920
neighbors and for everybody around us.
0:48:29.003,0:48:30.610
She was officially my sister.
0:48:30.693,0:48:36.460
It was a secret that I was
a child born out of wedlock, and
0:48:38.199,0:48:46.360
it was apparent that my mum suffered
from that, that she felt she had abandoned
0:48:46.960,0:48:48.010
her child. Me.
0:48:48.369,0:48:51.030
So I was a grown man, I had my own children.
0:48:51.113,0:48:57.130
One day when I came home on our little island in Greece.
0:48:58.210,0:48:59.710
We were coming home from swimming
0:48:59.793,0:49:04.000
And she saw us and she said, Please come over, René
0:49:04.269,0:49:08.139
and I wanted to take my children and she,
No, no I want to speak to you alone.
0:49:08.889,0:49:14.440
And I went to see her and she had prepared
a special chair and she asked me to sit
0:49:14.523,0:49:16.780
there and I thought, What's going on?
0:49:17.739,0:49:18.365
And
0:49:20.889,0:49:23.019
she knelt down and
0:49:24.449,0:49:25.619
she apologized
0:49:26.929,0:49:31.099
and asked me for forgiving, to forgive her.
0:49:31.183,0:49:35.159
And my instantaneous reaction was
to jump up and say, Are you crazy?
0:49:35.510,0:49:37.789
If somebody has to apologize, it's me.
0:49:38.320,0:49:46.159
For all that which I've done as a child
and as a grown man against my mother.
0:49:47.750,0:49:52.820
Thanks god, I had matured at that point
0:49:53.659,0:49:58.460
- again, thanks to holistic healing,
which starts with the self-treat of Reiki -
0:49:59.780,0:50:05.840
to the point that I didn't
follow my immediate reaction and a voice
0:50:05.923,0:50:11.449
inside me said, Who are you, René, not to give your
mum what she's asking for?
0:50:14.420,0:50:18.889
So that was ... a very powerful, emotional moment.
0:50:22.320,0:50:22.945
Hmm.
0:50:23.159,0:50:29.909
Thank you for sharing that and I bow
to your mother for the courage to
0:50:29.993,0:50:30.840
do that. That's ...
0:50:35.809,0:50:37.760
Yeah, it's amazing.
0:50:44.980,0:50:51.380
When you first told me about your reconciliation
work in the Reiki world,
0:50:52.219,0:51:01.070
I wasn't aware of all the conflict and
separation going on, and the reason was
0:51:01.153,0:51:09.630
that I thought these big, these important Reiki masters,
these personalities,
0:51:10.469,0:51:13.530
I projected a certain wisdom on them.
0:51:15.280,0:51:18.280
And I saw it as a contradiction to be ...
0:51:21.159,0:51:25.119
at the same time, a grand master or
whatever the title is
0:51:25.539,0:51:28.750
and in a petty fight about something.
0:51:31.869,0:51:33.010
Can you comment on that?
0:51:34.460,0:51:36.210
Well, it's something I often hear.
0:51:36.293,0:51:43.519
And even within the Reiki community,
I remember a very senior Reiki person when
0:51:43.603,0:51:51.949
I approached her to be one of the first
hundred protagonists to help me in my research.
0:51:52.639,0:51:56.070
And she didn't know me, and she said,
How dare you ask this question?
0:51:56.153,0:51:58.849
I'm practicing Reiki. I'm at peace with everyone.
0:52:01.369,0:52:02.599
So ...
0:52:02.683,0:52:07.250
So what you're projecting onto
Reiki people or teachers
0:52:08.780,0:52:12.170
we ourselves project
often upon ourselves,
0:52:12.829,0:52:16.489
quite inhumanely, by the way, and unfairly.
0:52:17.119,0:52:23.809
Unless, of course, I would claim to
be in full enlightenment, then it would be
0:52:23.893,0:52:27.739
appropriate that you could expect me
to be free of an ego.
0:52:28.010,0:52:33.230
But until such time and I can speak only
for myself, until I've reached that level,
0:52:33.980,0:52:34.880
I am a human being.
0:52:34.963,0:52:39.230
I have an ego, I have insecurities, I have needs.
0:52:39.313,0:52:41.030
I have a lot of things.
0:52:41.510,0:52:45.170
And this was actually an interesting ...
to come back to the story.
0:52:46.909,0:52:50.389
I responded to her in a very rude way.
0:52:50.473,0:52:55.550
I basically said to her,
Grow up, I don't believe you.
0:52:56.380,0:52:57.005
And
0:52:59.420,0:53:02.269
she was very upset about my ...
0:53:03.989,0:53:10.380
my response, which was not in the spirit
of Reiki. It was not respectful to
0:53:10.463,0:53:13.710
a colleague, to a more senior colleague
0:53:14.070,0:53:17.789
and also in Reiki, one of the
teachings is to respect the elders.
0:53:18.119,0:53:24.170
So I was in utter violation because
I was in a hurry, because ... whatever.
0:53:24.780,0:53:25.405
And
0:53:29.039,0:53:34.619
she reprimanded me very strongly and she
put me very strongly into a place.
0:53:34.703,0:53:36.519
And that was the end of that conversation.
0:53:36.603,0:53:41.070
We, we ... I never was able
to enter a conversation with her.
0:53:42.840,0:53:44.639
This was seven years ago.
0:53:45.570,0:53:46.949
I spoke to her last week.
0:53:48.719,0:53:49.590
Good for you.
0:53:51.570,0:53:52.409
And for her.
0:53:53.039,0:53:53.820
And for her.
0:53:54.420,0:53:55.045
Yes.
0:53:55.590,0:53:56.215
Yes.
0:53:56.760,0:53:58.559
So, so yes.
0:53:59.280,0:54:02.820
That seems to be like in contradiction that we
0:54:04.769,0:54:09.510
we are preaching water and are drinking
wine, that we are pretending to be another
0:54:09.659,0:54:11.190
even towards ourselves.
0:54:12.809,0:54:18.630
But I think it's fair to say, and I'm
making somewhat of a loop to the
0:54:18.713,0:54:19.769
Peace Nobel Prize,
0:54:20.739,0:54:24.719
I think it is somewhat fair to say that
0:54:26.219,0:54:33.059
there is a lot of consciousness and
awareness of that very contradiction.
0:54:33.143,0:54:39.489
That we're aspiring to live up to something
which by pure definition, we are almost
0:54:39.780,0:54:40.889
doomed to fail.
0:54:42.030,0:54:49.019
You know, as long as we haven't reached
that level yet, we are doomed to ...
0:54:50.849,0:54:58.349
So it's maybe comparable with a spiral
that you're making loops and loops and
0:54:58.433,0:55:01.380
loops and loops and it appears
that you're running in a circle.
0:55:01.463,0:55:05.789
But if you look at it from the side,
you can maybe see that each time you were
0:55:06.030,0:55:08.969
and if it is only a millimeter higher than the last.
0:55:09.329,0:55:10.199
So ...
0:55:12.210,0:55:18.840
I think that more and more people
in the Reiki community are conscious of the
0:55:18.923,0:55:23.190
potential and of the need that we need to
talk to each other, that we need to respect
0:55:23.273,0:55:31.949
each other, that we need to overcome
our own ego-driven or insecurity influenced
0:55:33.630,0:55:34.255
behavior.
0:55:37.860,0:55:38.789
Yes, and
0:55:40.559,0:55:42.809
reconciliation if successful, it's ...
0:55:46.139,0:55:47.699
just benefits everybody.
0:55:48.239,0:55:48.865
Yeah.
0:55:49.440,0:55:54.840
So I'm grateful for the
work that you're doing and I'm
0:55:57.329,0:56:06.840
sure about the ripples and that it's going
beyond, that it has an effect beyond the work that
0:56:06.923,0:56:09.929
you are doing and the people
are doing your talking to.
0:56:12.960,0:56:24.929
To close this session, I would like to give
the baton over to Phyllis Furumoto that
0:56:25.013,0:56:32.340
maybe have an excerpt from your
conversation to close our session.
0:56:32.423,0:56:38.760
I think that would be a good way to honor
her contribution to reconciliation.
0:56:39.300,0:56:40.260
Oh, OK.
0:56:43.670,0:56:44.349
Thank you.
0:56:44.719,0:56:46.369
And thank you, René, for
0:56:47.869,0:56:52.829
If I may. You asked me, what's
the question you forgot to ask.
0:56:54.440,0:56:56.960
There's one element, if I may just ...
0:56:58.909,0:57:00.380
So let's do it, let's do it.
0:57:00.980,0:57:02.570
Maybe take a deep breath.
0:57:02.653,0:57:05.000
And then we go, to your element.
0:57:05.179,0:57:05.805
OK?
0:57:06.380,0:57:08.719
To the video or to the question?
0:57:08.803,0:57:12.019
No, to the element that
you want to bring up.
0:57:12.349,0:57:12.975
OK.
0:57:17.389,0:57:18.110
Yes.
0:57:23.210,0:57:24.650
You know, recently ...
0:57:28.079,0:57:33.329
With the fragmentation as it has happened
and as it's accelerating through the
0:57:33.413,0:57:41.670
internet and also through the current
situation with people not physically
0:57:41.753,0:57:43.199
being able to talk to each other.
0:57:45.980,0:57:52.610
At one point in time, somebody said,
is it necessary still to think about
0:57:52.693,0:57:55.070
reconciliation and making an effort
0:57:57.170,0:58:04.550
or can we can we let it go now, because
some of the people of the past have died
0:58:04.633,0:58:07.519
and it's so multifaceted nowadays?
0:58:09.380,0:58:15.079
And I thought deeply about that, and there
was a voice in me which very
0:58:15.163,0:58:21.409
strongly said, and this is
as recent as last fall, 2021,
0:58:23.659,0:58:28.639
there was a voice in me which said, Yeah,
maybe. Maybe all the work I'm doing
0:58:28.723,0:58:32.000
right now can be stopped,
0:58:32.239,0:58:34.550
can be ... we can make a celebration.
0:58:34.880,0:58:35.505
It's a good year.
0:58:35.750,0:58:36.739
100 years Reiki.
0:58:40.570,0:58:41.230
But then
0:58:43.469,0:58:49.650
things happened on various levels.
Out there in the world.
0:58:49.920,0:58:56.579
I'm thinking now of Kazakhstan, of what's
happening in the Ukraine as we talk today.
0:58:57.630,0:59:02.489
I'm thinking of what happens
within families, within societies triggered
0:59:02.573,0:59:04.079
by the corona situation.
0:59:08.179,0:59:14.840
And I'm also privy to what happens within a
number of organizations now, this year.
0:59:15.469,0:59:17.119
It hasn't happened in November.
0:59:17.203,0:59:23.840
It's happening now this year. And it
appears to me that on many levels
0:59:25.840,0:59:27.250
war is underway.
0:59:27.429,0:59:30.369
Chaos is rampant. Everywhere.
0:59:32.739,0:59:35.650
A loss of orientation is everywhere.
0:59:37.079,0:59:43.800
And I came to the conclusion now more
than ever, it is important that holistic
0:59:43.883,0:59:48.150
healing and with that
reconciliation is an important part.
0:59:50.360,0:59:59.630
It may mean that we have to let go of old
ideas and old paradigms and old belief
0:59:59.713,1:00:02.809
systems in a very radical way.
1:00:03.320,1:00:09.559
Hopefully, we can do it together in
collaboration by dismantling things,
1:00:09.643,1:00:17.539
deconstruct organizations and take enough
time to reflect.
1:00:19.760,1:00:22.340
What is it that I can learn from the past?
1:00:23.090,1:00:25.250
What is it I need for the future?
1:00:25.639,1:00:30.440
And how can I reassemble
whatever I've created so far
1:00:31.039,1:00:35.449
so it's promising for the future, not only
of me and my generation, but of the
1:00:35.533,1:00:36.679
generations to come.
1:00:37.909,1:00:42.699
And to me, the picture of
the Phoenix, which arises from the ashes.
1:00:42.783,1:00:49.010
And I think that's very much like
a motto of where I am with my
1:00:49.093,1:00:51.110
reconciliation work today.
1:00:54.829,1:00:59.119
Thank you for your work,
and thanks for talking to me.
1:01:00.380,1:01:01.610
Let's have a look at the video.
1:01:02.480,1:01:06.530
With all this momentum
and moving into the future,
1:01:08.010,1:01:13.590
It is clear to me that Reiki is saying, OK,
now you're ready for the big picture.
1:01:14.769,1:01:17.860
You know, the world is
not about mommy and daddy,
1:01:18.070,1:01:21.280
my Reiki master, my lineage,
1:01:21.849,1:01:24.429
It's about our reiki.
1:01:25.300,1:01:28.420
it's about our gift to humanity.
1:01:30.190,1:01:31.179
Thank you very much.
1:01:31.900,1:01:32.525
Thank you.
1:01:35.889,1:01:37.440
So, dear viewers,
1:01:38.949,1:01:43.420
I turn the tables again from Daniel,
I'd like to thank you, Daniel, for having
1:01:43.630,1:01:45.400
taken the role as a host.
1:01:46.989,1:01:47.679
You're welcome.
1:01:48.400,1:01:57.039
Daniel is not only a friend, he
is also a coach, a quite radical activist
1:01:57.123,1:01:58.179
in many ways.
1:01:58.809,1:02:03.610
Somebody I really enjoy also because he
gives me and opens doors.
1:02:04.000,1:02:09.429
He gives me insights into things outside of
the Reiki community, which I'd like to
1:02:09.513,1:02:13.119
think I can bring into my
work and into the Reiki community.
1:02:13.570,1:02:15.460
So thank you very much, Daniel.
1:02:15.543,1:02:18.340
Regards to our friends in Portugal.
1:02:18.730,1:02:21.579
I say goodbye to you.
1:02:21.663,1:02:23.380
Daniel, thank you very much.
1:02:25.340,1:02:25.840
Take care.
Associação Portuguesa de Reiki
