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Welcome to RTalk, the place where we agree to disagree.
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My guest today is Rajive Johri.
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Our topic is 'Loss of words'.
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Hello Rajive, how are you?
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How are you, René? Good to see you.
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Same here.
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You're currently, I guess, in Florida. Is that correct?
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I am in sunny Florida.
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It's a beautiful view out of the window.
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So, pretty distracting, but I think you are more appealing.
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...
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Here is sun setting. It's still a nice view, but more importantly,
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the lake in front of my house, I visited it this afternoon.
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It was 14 degrees Celsius, really cold.
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Oh, yeah, it's 26 degrees here.
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Well, there we go.
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Rajive, I'd like to spend a few words to my viewers,
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introducing you a little bit, as best as I can.
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Some of it was already said.
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You are living in Connecticut and also in Florida,
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I guess you're alternating depending on the climate.
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I moved to New York City from Connecticut.
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Okay. Oh, you're no longer in Connecticut. You're in New York City?
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This summer we moved. Yes.
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All right. Good. Still, same thing applies:
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probably depending on the season, you're up there.
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Yes.
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I met - dear viewers - Rajive 30 years ago in Hong Kong,
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when we both trained to become Reiki teachers, Reiki masters.
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At the time, Rajiv was an executive at Citycorp.
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And he was busy with a banking career,
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ending with him sitting on a number of boards of directors
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from which last month, I think he resigned from the last seat.
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For the framing of our ... philosophical, spiritual conversation 'Loss of words',
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I'd like to give you a little bit of a spread and show you the world where Rajiv has come from
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and show you an excerpt from a video(-interview) he gave a few years ago.
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...the process that you followed to actually get onto a board?
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Well, in my case, the process was purely accidental.
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It wasn't something that I was actively out doing.
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I mean, I was doing what I love to do, which is...
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You know, Rajive, this was the key sentence to me when I did my research.
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We spoke, what last Wednesday,
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and I did a little bit research on you, what could I find on the net?
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And I came across this interview.
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And this sentence: "I do what I love to do" ...
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Because, you may know I'm quite busy with reinventing organisations of all kinds,
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and I think the key element today and for the future of organisations,
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but also of schooling, is actually intrinsic motivation, allowing to do what one does.
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I think that's something very important.
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Who knows, maybe later we get back to it, but let me continue with the video.
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Give my time to external forums.
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So associations, community activities, not-for-profit.
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I was raising funds for United Way.
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I joined the board of some not-for-profits.
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I was visible in the community. I was part of the Chamber of Commerce
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and giving speeches in associations.
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(Accidental interruption.)
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... visible. So not only I was visible in my own industry of banking,
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but I was visible in other forums as well.
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So as a result, I got a recruitment from,
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they approached me to join the board of a cable company.
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So that's how I joined Charter Communications.
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Because I was visible in the community, then people would ask me to join
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the board of something or the other.
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So I joined the board of Father Flanagan's Boys Town,
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which is again a hundred year old organization, is a Catholic organization.
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I had the unique privilege of being the first non-Christian chairman of a Catholic organization. Ever.
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So I was chairman of Father Flanagan's Boys Town.
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But all this happened because people saw me, people met me and they wanted me to participate.
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So a lot of this ... this is also a question.
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Is this a recipe to actually the success in your life?
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This what I perceive curiosity to be out there in different fields, meeting people.
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I know we're not on the topic of loss of words, it's maybe still searching for words,
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when you were making yourself available to the marketplace, to society in general.
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Tell me a little bit about this inert, intrinsically motivated curiosity.
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Am I right in what I am assuming here?
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Yes, you are, René.
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I go back a long, long time when I was maybe nine, ten years old
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and playing out with my buddies on the field.
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And at the end of it, when you sat down in the evening and we were just chit chatting
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and people were talking about all kinds of mundane stuff and I would look at the sky
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and see the moon and the stars and I would wonder the significance of each one of us
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and what we were saying or what we were spending time on.
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So that's something that I didn't decide to do.
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It just a thought which came to me and I didn't realize at that time,
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but later on it struck me that that's not how everyone else was thinking.
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It was something that was coming from within.
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That's something which has taken me through my life, brought opportunities,
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presented saints, people and things.
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But it's not something that I actively chose to do.
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You know, it just happened.
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This is why I wanted to make a little bit of an excursion into your banking world because
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for most people that's quite a stretch because they also heard your interest in spirituality.
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And obviously, you know, the title which we have chosen is
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directly alluding to spiritual or philosophical questions.
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So, how did you come out ... where did you grow up?
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You grew up in India great deals and where was the jump off to the executive world?
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Can you briefly lead us through this?
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Sure.
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You know, I grew up in Delhi.
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Growing up there, I did my schooling there and then I did my undergrad
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in the engineering college called IIT Delhi in Delhi.
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In those days, we are now talking about mid-60s when I went to my undergrad school at the age of 16,
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you know, engineering was considered to be the best career. It wasn't something ... once again,
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at the age of 16, I didn't know what I wanted to be.
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I just knew that I wanted to do something
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and I kind of got guided into a competitive exam, got selected and there I was studying engineering.
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Would you say that you're ... I did meet your mother of course many, many years ago.
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Would you say that you grew up in a specifically spiritual, for the lack of a better word,
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spiritual environment, a spiritually conscious environment?
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Was that true for your family or your environment?
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Or is it in fact true for India as a whole?
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Because the Prime Minister in the UK, is of Indian descent.
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Okay, I think he was born in the UK and he's through and through British, of course.
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But still, I'm curious about ... in your specific case, whether the spiritual environment was
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present and had already a influence on you or whether you even think that this was like
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everyday's life and this is how India still ticks today.
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Well, India has changed a lot since... When we were growing up, you know,
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I was born when India got independent and became a republic in 1950.
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I grew up in a home where education was of highest priority.
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My parents, pretty open minded, even though, you know,
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India is highly religious, but that doesn't mean it was segregated religious.
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We celebrated every religious festival, whether it was Hindu, Muslim, Christian, so it was pretty open.
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I read most of the religious literature about Hindu, Christian and Islamic before I was 10.
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I was allowed ... There was no prohibition on reading Quran or anything.
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It was just, I was allowed to do what I felt like doing.
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So I wouldn't say it was a spiritually inclined, but it was an open, accepting, tolerant inclined middle class upbringing.
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We were allowed to do what we wanted to do.
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And here we are, so many years later, we have a topic: loss of words.
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And I have to look, because I wasn't sure is it 'lost for words' or is it 'loss of words'?
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And I'm listening to you, so rhetorically, so eloquently, you express yourself.
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And yet, when we spoke last Wednesday about the possibility of having a discussion today,
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you actually said, you're a little bit at a loss of words.
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And I picked that up and I said, that's a good topic.
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Say something to why is 'loss of words' for us today such an important topic?
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I think you picked it up right.
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To me, it's both 'loss of words' and 'lost for words'.
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It reminds me of an incident in 1972 or 73.
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I was doing my grad school in business and we were invited to another Convent College of girls
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where one of the ladies who's now a friend of ours, she was running a contest.
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And the contest was that you had to fill in blanks and the person chosen for the best comment
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was going to get a prize from the mother superior.
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And the filling the blanks was she had written on a board: Happiness is
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And we had to fill in the blanks.
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And a lot of people wrote many words and so on.
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And I just went there and put a full stop after "is".
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(laughter)
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You know, people didn't laugh as much as they were very skeptical and thought I was being smart-alecky.
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But what they didn't know that I actually meant it.
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Until today, when I think of words,
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all those words which are put after "Happiness is ...." couldn't explain what happiness is.
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But I thought my full stop did.
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Words, to me, while I've had to use a lot of words in all my life and my working life, personal life, you can't avoid it,
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but I find the words sometimes cause more confusion, sometimes complications.
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And yet, they are not able to explain what is truly intrinsically felt.
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So you know, other people give the example of if you try to describe what is sweetness,
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no words can explain it, you just have to experience it.
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So there is experience on one side and words on the other.
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So similarly, when we're talking about any deeper or a lighter subject,
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I get lost for words and how do I explain this?
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So just to give you another simple example, you know,
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I've lived in five countries and I moved around. I've lived in 14 different cities.
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I've managed businesses around the world and as I moved around,
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you know, when you're sitting next to somebody and meeting them,
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one of the questions which is first asked is, where are you from?
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And most people are very easily able to answer, hey, I'm from Connecticut.
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I'm from this place, because that's where they grew up and they spent bulk of their lives
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and I would say, oh, now what is this person asking me?
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Am I an American? I am an Indian? I'm an Asian? I'm what?
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And where am I from?
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So I would be at a loss for words in those situations.
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So a normal explanation could explain where I was from because I was from everywhere
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And I was from nowhere.
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Well, of course, you know, the child who put the full stop after 'Happiness is' - a full stop -
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and the grown up who is being asked, where are you from, and is pondering that,
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in the background of all of that is of course a more deeper reflection of existence as a whole.
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And ... When we met in Hong Kong and you did your own studying, I did my own studying,
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we had moments together, particularly revolving around Reiki.
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But one of the books I got attracted to was, let me just get it here, the I Ching
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describing Tao and the very first sentence of the 'bible' for all the Taoists in the world, the I Ching says:
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"The Tao that can be described, is not the eternal Tao.
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The name that can be spoken is not the eternal name."
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And quite similarly, of course, in Jewish religion, there is no name or the name of
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God is not being uttered because it is beyond words.
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And that child, when it made a full stop already had subconsciously or whatever way, obviously
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at that time you hadn't read any of the smart books,
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because Ramana Maharishi is of course the essence of ... What he's saying is exactly that.
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"We are now in the very moment."
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Obviously that was present at that moment.
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And that knowledge, that wisdom, that enlightenment of the child just making a full stop there,
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that is a moment of awe, of splendor, of consciousness being truly one with everything.
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Like the essence of the Namaste greetings.
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I've mumbled on, would you agree more or less or rather
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would you expand on what I said if you do agree?
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Yes. And that is where the topic comes into play,
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which is that we are now into a subject where language is limited.
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It is not capable of describing or expressing.
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So, from the old days, the methodology which was used was ...
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One of them you cited in the Taoism and in the Hinduism it's called 'Neti Neti', means not this, not this.
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So they used a couple of techniques to explain or attempt to describe what is indescribable.
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And one of them was not this, the other one is using pointers,
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because something you can point to but you cannot describe it.
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One of the stories which I came across later on is a mythological story in the Indian system
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which is, there used to be an emperor and he was the most powerful emperor.
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He had everything he wanted and all the wealths, everything was at his disposal.
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And one night he had a nightmare and in the nightmare he sees that his kingdom was attacked
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by another king and despite his being the most powerful, he is defeated
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and he's arrested and he brought in chains in front of the other king
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who mistreats him and finally takes away everything from him and exiles him into the forest.
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So he goes into the forest and he has not eaten for several days
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and he's looking for food and he's saying:
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"What happened? I had everything and now I have nothing."
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And he's searching for foods for days and he's literally crawling, scared of animals
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and so on and suddenly he sees a half-eaten apple on the ground.
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He runs for it and he grabs it. Just as he's about to take a bite,
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a squirrel jumps and snatches the apple from him and he doesn't have that.
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He lies down on the ground and he starts howling.
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And then he wakes up.
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He wakes up on his royal bed and he's got everything.
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And he sits up and he says:
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"Is this real or was that real?"
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He keeps repeating this sentence and everyone comes and says, what happened to the king?
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And the queen comes and the princess comes and everyone comes and he says:
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"Was that real or is this real?"
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So he wouldn't do anything else.
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So finally one of the gurus in the kingdom came and met him
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and he asked him, was that real or is this real?
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And the guru says: "Were you there when you had nothing?"
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He said: "Yes, I was there. I experienced it."
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He said: "Are you here now?"
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He was experiencing all this wealth.
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He said: "Yes."
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He said: "Well, neither that was real nor this is real. You are the only real."
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Wow.
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So ...
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There is no other way of saying this except to provide a pointer.
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This is a bit the dilemma we have.
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I mean, it's a paradox that you and I should speak about this topic and use words to speak.
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It's a little bit paradoxical and yet, of course in communication that's a very important part
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even though it is well known that a great deal of our communication is actually
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non-verbal even if we do use words and talk.
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You know, listening to the story you just said and to the guru's advice ...
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Before I get there ...
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Say something about guru or gurudom, because I find that this is ...
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and I'm talking to an Indian gentleman, so I want to grasp the opportunity and get rid of that question, because ...
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The word is so often used in different ways and we Westerners we have a big hang-up about the word 'guru'.
0:21:56.570,0:22:01.430
It's very 'esoteric New Age' and creates dependency and that kind of thing.
0:22:01.880,0:22:09.680
So, very often we tend to say, well, guru is just another way for 'teacher'.
0:22:10.740,0:22:14.080
From all I know that to some extent that is true
0:22:14.250,0:22:21.770
but it's making maybe small of something which deserves a little more elaboration.
0:22:21.850,0:22:23.120
Could you please?
0:22:24.000,0:22:31.070
It's an interesting question. I mean, I could expound on it and spend thousands of words.
0:22:32.040,0:22:37.318
This reminds me of the question ... The same question was asked to Deepak Chopra on
0:22:37.320,0:22:41.990
an interview by Larry King about 20 years ago.
0:22:43.250,0:22:47.900
I'm sure it is there on YouTube somewhere but I don't know whether you've seen it
0:22:48.250,0:22:53.970
but it reminds me every time somebody says or talks about guru that reminds me of that answer,
0:22:54.480,0:22:57.240
because the question was ... Larry says:
0:22:57.580,0:23:02.970
"Alright Deepak, can you tell me what is guru?"
0:23:03.780,0:23:07.920
And Deepak Chopra without batting an eyelid looked at him and he says:
0:23:08.050,0:23:10.020
"Spell guru to me."
0:23:10.980,0:23:13.670
And Larry says: "What?"
0:23:13.670,0:23:15.680
He says: "Yes, just spell guru to me!"
0:23:15.980,0:23:19.040
And Larry says: "G U R U ."
0:23:19.400,0:23:24.020
And Deepak replied, he says: "Gee, You Are You."
0:23:24.450,0:23:30.830
(Laughter.)
0:23:31.400,0:23:38.140
I don't think there is a better answer to that question than what Deepak gave.
0:23:38.380,0:23:40.850
I'm giving full credit to him. It's not my answer.
0:23:41.160,0:23:44.080
But, you know, of course you know there's gurudom,
0:23:44.490,0:23:49.640
which is often misused by many people,
0:23:49.680,0:23:56.170
it's commercialization playing on the sentiments and the fears and anxieties of normal human beings.
0:23:56.750,0:24:00.530
And people's ... But you know, some people find solace and peace in it.
0:24:00.660,0:24:06.850
And some people get jipped by it too. So let's forget the fraudster’s part of it.
0:24:07.190,0:24:10.850
The distinction that I would make between a teacher and a guru
0:24:11.020,0:24:13.300
is that there is no teacher without students.
0:24:14.220,0:24:19.150
And yet ... a guru just is.
0:24:19.650,0:24:22.890
Guru is there for the teaching.
0:24:23.640,0:24:26.180
For anyone who's ready to receive it.
0:24:27.050,0:24:35.530
So, you know, many of us - I know that you have too - been in front of gurus like Balsekar and other people.
0:24:36.210,0:24:41.200
And when you go there, there are number of people present
0:24:41.200,0:24:46.460
but each one takes away something different from the same words which are spoken or unspoken.
0:24:48.040,0:24:51.960
And that is because they are ready for that part of the teaching.
0:24:53.740,0:25:04.090
So I would say that a guru is imparting deeper knowledge to the level the recipient is ready for.
0:25:05.920,0:25:12.730
So the recipient would put probably his question in form of words
0:25:12.980,0:25:19.990
and the answer from a guru would be beyond words. Is that a fair summary of what you just said?
0:25:20.670,0:25:26.410
No, guru ... Some of the gurus give long answers and words as well
0:25:26.470,0:25:32.080
depending on the students that they accept - I shouldn't use the word student -
0:25:32.290,0:25:34.530
depending on the recipient who is present.
0:25:34.740,0:25:38.810
And they bring down the language to their level
0:25:38.990,0:25:45.490
and therefore the language being used for one individual can be misunderstood by another individual
0:25:45.560,0:25:48.770
who attributes different meanings to those words.
0:25:48.770,0:25:52.460
But those words were meant for that particular individual.
0:25:53.240,0:25:58.090
I've seen that happening. It has happened with me. It has happened with other people.
0:25:58.190,0:26:04.910
So, the guru has the ability to communicate at that level of the recipient.
0:26:06.280,0:26:08.450
Okay, I understand.
0:26:09.280,0:26:17.130
You know, you're touching again on an important thing that we hear things differently.
0:26:17.790,0:26:23.060
We have viewers out there listening to our conversation and basically each of them
0:26:23.310,0:26:27.480
is listening through his own filters through his own biography
0:26:27.920,0:26:34.140
and he will have consciously, subconsciously a degree of selective hearing with words.
0:26:35.510,0:26:43.220
And depending on his choice he of course will get his preconceived opinion validated,
0:26:43.960,0:26:52.480
or his choice may also be to reflect on his belief-systems and on his preconceived opinions
0:26:52.930,0:27:04.050
and be open to suggestion that maybe there is a degree of truth beyond that which he hears through his filters.
0:27:05.950,0:27:11.040
When you spoke earlier, when I interrupted you with the question of the guru,
0:27:11.890,0:27:17.010
it actually reminded me ... You've seen that
0:27:17.510,0:27:26.080
the Nobel Prize this year for physics was given to quantum physics which ...
0:27:26.410,0:27:31.970
Oh! How did I get into this spot trying to explain what quantum physics is ...
0:27:32.440,0:27:33.960
(Laughter.)
0:27:33.960,0:27:34.910
In words!
0:27:35.530,0:27:43.450
Basically, I think the award was given for the proof of something which in spiritual terms
0:27:43.590,0:27:51.590
has been known for a long time but in the world of empiric science
0:27:51.790,0:27:58.220
it has not been validated and that is in the quantum physical world that
0:28:00.090,0:28:09.330
one piece of light for example emanating from the same source going into different directions,
0:28:09.590,0:28:14.730
the moment you change one of those ends in the direction
0:28:14.800,0:28:19.470
no matter how far apart, how many zillions of light years they are apart,
0:28:20.270,0:28:26.560
the other, it's twin brother or twin sister, basically will respond to the change.
0:28:26.820,0:28:31.210
Actually, to the contrary, to the opposite and balancing.
0:28:31.570,0:28:39.200
And of course ... I'm at a loss of words right now. I don't know why my mind went there.
0:28:39.720,0:28:45.600
I see you nodding and giggling, can you maybe put sense to my own words, please?
0:28:45.840,0:28:49.090
Spirituality and quantum physics?
0:28:50.990,0:28:56.320
You know, in my times of teaching,
0:28:57.130,0:29:01.400
the students that I attracted were from the corporate world mostly.
0:29:02.400,0:29:09.380
And people would wonder that how is it that somebody like me who's in the corporate world,
0:29:10.090,0:29:12.540
international global corporate world,
0:29:12.890,0:29:16.980
was engaging in something which a lot of people would call it
0:29:17.410,0:29:20.970
'witchcraft', 'voodoo' and funny stuff and whatever.
0:29:22.190,0:29:26.430
One of the things that probably appealed to them because I attempted
0:29:26.430,0:29:31.330
- and I used to tell them that I'll make an attempt - to give a scientific explanation,
0:29:31.940,0:29:34.410
because of my scientific background.
0:29:34.480,0:29:40.090
But I always would also say that, look, science doesn't create anything.
0:29:40.720,0:29:46.710
Science by definition is only explaining what already exists
0:29:47.360,0:29:52.820
and is constantly endeavouring to keep on discovering what already exists.
0:29:53.020,0:29:53.640
Yeah.
0:29:53.980,0:30:00.910
Okay. So, you know, whether it's quantum physics or ... black holes
0:30:00.920,0:30:04.940
and creation of black holes and all that stuff, is just ...
0:30:04.990,0:30:11.140
Or talking about one million, billion, trillion light years away you suddenly take a picture of it
0:30:11.910,0:30:19.470
and put it on Facebook or whatever, it's you know, it's still so far removed from where we are.
0:30:20.000,0:30:24.000
Okay, and some people are ... You know, it's like ...
0:30:24.270,0:30:28.750
Just to bring it down to today's context of vaccines.
0:30:28.750,0:30:33.470
There are people who don't believe in vaccines. Okay, and some people believe in vaccines.
0:30:33.600,0:30:40.660
Now there is science which says this works but it also says it works only 85% of the time.
0:30:42.640,0:30:46.970
So, nothing that science says works 100% in any case.
0:30:47.940,0:30:52.000
As far as deep spirituality goes
0:30:53.100,0:31:00.820
the questions of spirituality have been arising ever since the existence itself.
0:31:01.300,0:31:05.550
And that is why the oldest of literature which exists,
0:31:06.000,0:31:11.960
at least, I mean, I'm aware of their existence in the Vedic system, in the Indian religions,
0:31:12.510,0:31:18.580
every question that we talk about today or try to answer has already been asked and answered.
0:31:18.600,0:31:24.810
I mean, it's amazing when I read some of the Upanishads and old literature
0:31:24.970,0:31:30.500
every question which is being asked has been asked multiple times
0:31:30.590,0:31:35.710
and has been answered. And debated. And re-debated in multiple times.
0:31:35.910,0:31:42.680
So, I don't see a contradiction between science and spirituality.
0:31:43.130,0:31:46.200
Science... That's why even scientists that today
0:31:46.200,0:31:52.230
- what's his name, David Chalmers who's written a book called 'The hard problem of consciousness' ...
0:31:53.240,0:31:59.020
he is trying to explain consciousness but you cannot explain it, you know but experience it.
0:31:59.260,0:32:03.100
But bringing it to the words is reminding me of another story,
0:32:03.280,0:32:09.110
which is of another king who had one prince, one son.
0:32:09.130,0:32:10.840
But this son never spoke.
0:32:11.250,0:32:17.310
So he was all the time worried that "my son doesn't speak; how is he going to take over and become the king?"
0:32:17.650,0:32:24.770
At any time anyway, the prince had grown up. He was about 20 years old and he still wouldn't speak.
0:32:25.220,0:32:29.810
So, you know, he called a lot of teachers and gurus and to help him
0:32:30.070,0:32:37.700
but this guy wouldn't speak so one day, one of his ministers went for a walk with this prince to the palace gardens.
0:32:38.320,0:32:44.580
And there, you know, they were, the minister was trying to make him speak by talking about different subjects.
0:32:44.960,0:32:51.820
You know, deep spiritual subjects and the politics, the war, whatever. But this guy wouldn't say a word.
0:32:52.760,0:32:59.980
While they were roaming around there was a peacock sitting on a tree.
0:33:00.700,0:33:08.120
And the peacock started speaking and making the sounds of 'pew pew' whatever.
0:33:08.380,0:33:12.740
And after some time this guy who was trying to make this guy speak got very irritated.
0:33:13.200,0:33:15.630
He took out his gun and shot the peacock.
0:33:16.380,0:33:22.310
And the peacock fell and this prince ran to the peacock
0:33:23.360,0:33:27.630
and picked him up in his lap and started caressing him and said:
0:33:28.300,0:33:32.900
"If only you had kept quiet and not spoken a word. You would be alive."
0:33:33.550,0:33:35.300
(Laughter.)
0:33:35.690,0:33:45.240
So, words, sound can create more trouble. And this prince innately knew that being the prince
0:33:45.690,0:33:48.558
he was the target in the palace politics.
0:33:48.560,0:33:50.360
So he wouldn't speak.
0:33:51.310,0:33:53.030
But it comes from within.
0:33:55.740,0:33:59.370
Other people didn't understand that he understood.
0:34:01.820,0:34:08.798
Nice. Nice story making a good point. You know it reminded me of Albert Einstein
0:34:08.800,0:34:13.180
who reputedly didn't speak for the first five years of his life
0:34:13.700,0:34:20.760
and then one Sunday morning they had breakfast and there was soft boiled eggs
0:34:20.870,0:34:26.100
and little Albert said: "Mommy the eggs are undercooked."
0:34:26.660,0:34:31.300
And the whole family said: "But Albert, you can speak! Why didn't you speak earlier?"
0:34:31.500,0:34:34.600
And he says: "So far the eggs have been alright."
0:34:35.180,0:34:38.350
(Chuckling.)
0:34:40.610,0:34:45.360
It's ... an interesting topic.
0:34:46.800,0:34:54.158
I find it very ... And we had a lot of ... Particularly you contributed with amusing stories which
0:34:54.160,0:35:01.078
were beautiful metaphors to transport of course a deeper meaning and I find it very amusing
0:35:01.080,0:35:10.478
that the modern news bringer today are like in the old days the fool again. You know,
0:35:10.480,0:35:17.210
the emperor always had a fool and the fool was the only one who was allowed to speak the truth.
0:35:18.070,0:35:25.718
And all the ministers of course were kowtowing and our fools today are actually
0:35:25.720,0:35:33.798
our comedians and it's amazing particularly during corona time it was very intense and during
0:35:33.800,0:35:39.358
political upheaval very often we get a lot of interesting information from the comedians.
0:35:39.470,0:35:43.150
More so than from the anchorman of the news stations.
0:35:43.820,0:35:56.180
So we are battling a little bit for words, even though we know that ultimately it's the full stop which says it all.
0:35:56.440,0:36:01.040
So we're coming towards an end of our conversation, Rajive.
0:36:01.960,0:36:09.020
Tell me a little bit how usually a few words, how are you right now?
0:36:09.240,0:36:17.950
And how are you in context with life ... how content are you in your life?
0:36:18.820,0:36:25.960
Share maybe somewhat of an insight which spontaneously comes to your mind.
0:36:26.350,0:36:28.480
It can be another joke if you want to.
0:36:30.990,0:36:37.540
Well. You know, I get up in the morning and the first thing I do
0:36:37.690,0:36:45.310
I thank for the experiences which this body-mind
0:36:45.350,0:36:49.590
which was brought into this world by my mother and father. So I thank them.
0:36:50.260,0:36:56.630
I thank the planet earth for hosting this body-mind.
0:36:57.310,0:37:01.640
And I thank this body-mind for being healthy
0:37:02.020,0:37:05.910
and giving me the experiences over the last 72 years.
0:37:05.910,0:37:14.670
It has given me wonderful experiences and this body-mind, and consciousness,
0:37:14.700,0:37:21.100
have given me experiences and the ability to discriminate between what is real and what is not.
0:37:21.940,0:37:29.680
It's so easy to get engaged and involved with the reactions of this body-mind
0:37:30.560,0:37:33.550
which are natural which is intrinsic, because of ...
0:37:33.710,0:37:37.990
you know, you can get into another talk on that as to why that happens and how that happens
0:37:37.990,0:37:44.390
but it does happen in that one responds - I remember this workshop
0:37:44.410,0:37:50.570
that you and I did together with John Veltheim which is response versus reaction.
0:37:51.400,0:37:59.630
So, you know, the body-mind reacts and sometimes our response gets engaged with the reaction.
0:38:00.920,0:38:13.810
It is the blessing - whether it's the blessing because of my gurus or angels or whatever -
0:38:13.990,0:38:19.700
intrinsically, which allow me to distinguish between the response and the reaction.
0:38:19.880,0:38:26.150
While the reaction is happening it seems I'm engaging but I'm not.
0:38:29.250,0:38:38.000
My life today is about going with the flow. I remember this question was asked once to Balsekar.
0:38:38.360,0:38:45.260
There was a Jewish gentleman from Argentina who had a very disturbed childhood
0:38:45.530,0:38:50.240
and he was sitting there and I was watching this conversation taking place with Ramesh.
0:38:51.150,0:38:55.760
After he listened to Ramesh for ... They had this interaction for more than an hour.
0:38:56.020,0:38:56.850
And then he said:
0:38:56.860,0:39:02.600
"So, what is the purpose of this life then if everything is just happening
0:39:02.600,0:39:06.810
as consciousness is doing everything in consciousness,
0:39:06.990,0:39:09.460
what am I supposed to do?"
0:39:10.500,0:39:13.640
And Ramesh gave a very simple answer. He said:
0:39:14.000,0:39:18.610
"The purpose of life is to live."
0:39:19.600,0:39:21.070
Full stop.
0:39:23.840,0:39:25.870
He said, just live.
0:39:26.680,0:39:29.960
There is nothing more, nothing less.
0:39:30.670,0:39:33.880
And of course in Bhagavad Gita Krishna says this to Arjuna as well.
0:39:33.880,0:39:40.160
But you know, all this brings you to the same point that I made earlier that, you know,
0:39:40.160,0:39:41.650
with all the words and everything,
0:39:42.010,0:39:46.900
every question is always already being asked and already been answered by someone.
0:39:47.720,0:39:54.700
And if it's only as a recipient, have we captured the essence of that question and answer?
0:39:55.790,0:39:58.120
That's why the book ... Ramesh (Balsekar's) book
0:39:58.120,0:39:59.770
which is the most popular book,
0:40:00.160,0:40:03.600
it doesn't say "Ramesh speaks", it doesn't say "Ramana speaks", it says:
0:40:03.960,0:40:05.940
"Consciousness speaks".
0:40:06.760,0:40:09.660
So it happens.
0:40:10.010,0:40:17.370
So I'm going with the flow. I'm, you know, relishing the joys which are served in front of me.
0:40:19.010,0:40:20.820
And ...
0:40:22.470,0:40:24.940
That's it.
0:40:25.770,0:40:32.630
You spoke and I heard that little boy saying happiness is. Full stop.
0:40:35.880,0:40:40.080
Thank you. I hope, I mean, I'm at a loss for words after this.
0:40:40.500,0:40:41.870
Join the club.
0:40:42.300,0:40:49.430
I just enjoyed that very brief moment of silence because it's a nice ending to our conversation.
0:40:50.670,0:40:56.620
You know what you said and that full stop which you made at the end of our conversation
0:40:56.620,0:41:02.150
and which you described which you made as a child at school.
0:41:03.630,0:41:08.990
The only thing left is for me to say thank you to you, to express my gratitude to you
0:41:09.250,0:41:11.630
that you invested some time here.
0:41:12.480,0:41:19.350
Thank you very much Rajive. I wish you a nice day still and I'm saying for now goodbye to you.
0:41:19.480,0:41:21.790
Thank you very much.
0:41:22.240,0:41:24.620
Thank you, René. Enjoy it too.
0:41:25.100,0:41:28.430
Namaste.
0:41:29.000,0:41:33.130
Dear viewers, thank you very much for having watched.
0:41:33.280,0:41:34.650
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0:41:34.840,0:41:39.690
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